(Ok... so that title's a little silly.)
Aaron's blog really got me thinking. (So this is a tangent, not in direct response to that article, Aaron etc.)
I find it really easy to get fired up when I see Christians say crap that I think is totally the opposite of what Jesus stood for. Like "WHAT THE CRAP ARE YOU DOING?!"
But what do we do then? Humans will always disagree on things. Christians are included in that whole human thing. There are different interpretations of everything in the Bible, not to mention things in history and current political/cultural events.
So what do we do? Build walls? Create separate sides? Keep silent? Stand up for what we believe? Scream our "truths"? How do we love each other through complete disagreements?
What does Jesus model? Sometimes he got angry. Sometimes he was silent. Sometimes he said something completely unexpected. I wish the book of Matthew included a little chart that says "if situation 'Q' happens, then go to column 3 for response."
Golly.
I don't know. Christian bashing is bad. But so is spewing out lies.
What is the root of it all? What do most people want? Peace. Joy. Connection. Wholeness.
We just all have different ideas of how to get there.
Hmmm... I wish I had some conclusions.
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11 comments:
i think those conservative christians are like those 3 or 4 dumbass cousins in your family. they annoy you but you just have to love them anyway, cause theyre family.
I wish that the Bible had those charts too! ;)
I think the key is relationship. If...say...Ben started spouting weird statements, you'd be able to walk up to him and say, "wtf? or...What the crap" whichever you prefer. And he'd listen, and probably respect where you're coming from. Whereas if some Joe Xian that you didn't know started saying the same thing, he'd be less open to you confronting him.
It's interesting, because we were talking last night about this same thing at my small group.
Now, take the next statements with a grain of salt...I was a debate nerd in high school.
One of the few ways I have with *loving* the folks I disagree with is learning about where they're coming from. Dialoging, reading websites, attending talks which I may not agree with. (And not raising my hand and yelling at them...just hearing them out and asking reasonable questions.)
It gives me insight. For instance when the Fred Phelps folks were in town here to mark the 1 year anniversary of Matthew Shepard's death, there was a panel talk hosted by the university. As I listened while they presented, it struck me that they really honestly thought what they do (with their God hates... signs) is evangelism. That someone will see the sign, and say, "oh my, God hates me, I should change my ways and become a Christian so he likes me."
Now, you and I would both agree that it's not the most effective means of evangelism. And by no means will you ever see me out there with a sign like that. (In fact, you'll probably see me out there helping those biker guys who scare them off from military funerals.) However, finding that out about them helped me to love them just a teeny bit more. They're creatures to be pitied, indeed, just like Gandalf says about Gollum in the LOTR, but they also play importantly in our story.
And who knows...they might be the wounded man on the road that you're called to care for. (Or is called to care for you.)
I think it might be worth it to follow some more recent examples - Martin Luther King and Ghandi were amazing at fighting hate with love, using passive means to battle violence and oppression. Just read a few quotes from those guys some time.
The other day though, I saw a post from someone online about how moderate Christians are at fault for allowing the Religious Right to run the show - I must say, I understand his feelings - doesn't it feel somehow wrong for us to watch and do nothing while Christians full of hate and bigotry get media attention?
I guess my question is not how we should respond on a personal level - I feel much more comfortable about having a personal discussion about these things.
But in the media, it looks to the world like moderate Christians don't care enough to respond. I guess we should be ok with having our reputations tarnished, and we should definitely understand that God doesn't need our defense.
I'm mainly concerned for those who dismiss Christ when they hear stuff like this. Should we just keep loving our friends and reaching out on a personal level, and let these guys do what they will? Or do we try to stand up publicly for a view that is more inclusive?
Aaron, I think you make some valid points.
This is the most important though, " I guess we should be ok with having our reputations tarnished, and we should definitely understand that God doesn't need our defense."
I think moderate Christians do make their voices heard. (I mean, Pat Robertson certainly hasn't been elected president, and that's in part due to him not receiving votes from all the people in the US who call themselves "Christian.")
I would like to idealistically think that our voice is heard silently. Instead of flexing our muscle in public forum, we flex our muscles by heading to New Orleans to build houses, or here in Greeley at Habitat.
Instead of trying to sway the minds of millions through moderate Christian programming, we're the ones meeting friends for coffee, not rejecting them just because they have a different idea than we do, not giving up on siblings who have stopped keeping the faith, etc.
Believing in a stereotype goes both ways. Our minds are certainly changed about a stereotypical group when we meet members of that group and learn about them. I cannot honestly think that someone would continuously believe that God hates gay people because the Fred Phelps group is screaming it when they come into contact with members of the Christian community who whisper otherwise.
Nobody wants to be yelled at. That's why King and Gandhi were so effective-they started whispering the values in which they believed, and that whisper started a fire.
Does this mean they sat on their hands, that their voice wasn't heard by the public? By no means, however they didn't use the same strategies that were considered the normal way for dissemating the opposing opinion.
Leave it to Eric to put it bluntly; maybe that's true. I don't know what to do with our lovely cousins. I read all of the other comments, and I agreed. I think, hovering on Aaron's post regarding God not needing our defense, that modeling God and Jesus is the best bet. I mean isn't that what Ghandi and MLK did, stand up for what is right by example and not be afraid of being oppressed. Believe in the utopian goal(although it sucks that it has to be a utopian desire, a world free of hate and all). Because in reality, if we all are God's children, then we don't need defense either if we are leading people to God and modeling Him, right?
Live with no defense would be my motto.
I really agree with a lot of what each of you are saying. However, Aaron - I absolutely think you should write a counter letter to the paper. Without being accusatory towards who Mr. Grant is as a person, it is important for this community to understand that other views exist.
I also went to the Fred Phelps thing at UNC a few years ago and was moved by the power of public dialog. Presenting both sides is so important. It just needs to be done in a grace-filled respectful way.
Something else I have been thinking a lot about - especially since reading this article last night and the discussions we had a small group - is how do we restore greeley? If it is true, like Heather said, that this segregation has existed for many years, what can we, as a small community do to combat it? I am also not interested as much on an individual level, but as a group. How do we bring restoration to Greeley and provide a refuge for those who need it?
I dug around, and found this letter.
I think that is the way not to react.
I like the idea, though, that we can respond publicly and accomplish good. I just think it would be tremendously difficult to articulate the moderate stance correctly - the letters I have started come across either too judgmental or too watered down and vague. Public dialog can be beneficial in the right context. It is just hard to find the time, place, and approach.
I also like the idea that the Christians who really "get it" are so busy doing God's work that they don't have time to sit around and whine at each other. I'm just saddened by the thought of my friends reading that stuff.
I really agree with Betony, that I have a strong desire to see community movements towards growth and connection in this place. I don't feel right about denying the possibility of that, and the hope for it. But I don't know how to do that. It can get ugly when not done properly.(Moral Majority)
ps. judging by the comments, there is mostly support for Steve's view.
Comments on the Tribune website really are just an indicator of who has time to sit around and comment on the website. It's frequently been commented there that only the jerks have a chance to respond. :)
Bet, your question is a good one. The idealist in me likes the ideas we talked about last night. The realist/pessimist in me thinks that we'll meet with resistance on both sides of the issue.
This is partly why I feel the responsibility comes down very hard on the individual. The individual striving to make relationships, find common ground, etc.
I was also pondering that the focus last night was very centered on hispanic relations...nobody really had any ideas about reaching out to those in our community who harbor the ideas from the "white" angle...hmm.
I heartily agree with your point of individual responsibility.
This is a good discussion. We should keep the idea rolling, because I think it is one of the key areas that needs to be restored.
So...it was such an interesting topic that I started the following conversation at theooze.com, I *think* you can view the convo without having to join and become a member:
http://www.theooze.com/forums/discussions.cfm?forumid=16&topicid=420547
Anyways, looks to be developing interestingly :)
~H
How about a link:
For those too lazy to cut and paste
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